Pad Fade at Zolder

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pgrayson
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Pad Fade at Zolder

Postby pgrayson » Mon Jun 09, 2014 7:48 pm

Did anyone else suffer from pad fade at Zolder? I couldn't get them to last the race, the pedal was hard but the brakes weren't having it. Currently using Millers oil which has been fine but will be swapping it out for SRF before Rockingham.

A.Kirkham
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Re: Pad Fade at Zolder

Postby A.Kirkham » Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:03 am

Oh yes ..... 924 brakes were struggling big time :roll:

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Chris Valentine
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Re: Pad Fade at Zolder

Postby Chris Valentine » Tue Jun 10, 2014 4:48 pm

From the 2014 regulations its only the Class A Boxsters that have to use specific MDB2038F2R and MDB1874F2R Mintex pads and "discs must be as standard for the model" giving you the choice of Textar, Sebro and Pagid cross-drilled discs. Class B Boxsters can use any Mintex pads but again "discs must be as standard". The 924s are open.

In all cases you can fit additional ducting or deflectors "as long as no bodywork has to be removed or modified to fit" it. Boxsters should fit the larger GT3 ducts to the suspension arms (they're dirt-cheap through Porsche Reading) and make certain that the front parts of the wheel arch liners are in tact as they also direct air to the front brakes.

I'm personally of the opinion that we move from Mintex and Questmead as quite a few people have had supply issues this season - they basically don't make enough of them. PCGB have gone with Performance Friction as sponsors but their regs are actually open. An arrangement with Pagid would be good as they have a very wide range - I'm just not sure about availability for the 924s.

Chris.
You don't stop having fun when you get old - you get old when you stop having fun.
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karlio
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Re: Pad Fade at Zolder

Postby karlio » Tue Jun 10, 2014 8:13 pm

924's have a whole range of pads available including ebc,pagid,porterfield,hawk,mintex and more so no problems there with choice.

always think it is not the best situation when you have no choice over pads,especially if they are hard to get hold of.

Adam C
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Re: Pad Fade at Zolder

Postby Adam C » Wed Jun 11, 2014 10:39 am

Think the time has come for a serious discussion about how we can improve the regs on braking systems from a safety perspective, particularly on the Boxsters, but maybe also on the 924's.

Zolder was excessively hot, but it highlighted some big problems with brakes throughout the field. It's looking like my own braking issues were master cylinder related (maybe a seal gone or a complete failure), but it's clear that people's brakes in general weren't man enough for the job this weekend.

Whether that's discs / pads / cooling / fluids that are the route cause, I have no idea. Could I suggest we form a 'technical working group' of people that know about these things, to thrash some ideas around to try and find some improvements asap? It needs sorting guys.

Cheers
Adam

fontwell1
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Re: Pad Fade at Zolder

Postby fontwell1 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 12:08 pm

I couldn't agree more Adam.

The 924 brakes are so basic; with solid discs at front and standard drums at the rear they are certainly not state of the art. As we are not a 'classic' formula where originality is everything I don't see why we can't improve the breed and at the same time make the cars safer and faster.

Perhaps we could set up a group, Karl to take this further. I would be happy to help in any way I can.

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Chris Valentine
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Re: Pad Fade at Zolder

Postby Chris Valentine » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:05 pm

Is a change to discs at the back of the 924s viable? Or is the bias so far forwards its not worth doing?

Chris.
You don't stop having fun when you get old - you get old when you stop having fun.
http://88racing.com/

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Chris Valentine
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Re: Pad Fade at Zolder

Postby Chris Valentine » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:16 pm

As Richard has mentioned in the Zolder thread, how certain are you that your callipers are working on all cylinders? When were they last refurbished? If the pistons are working unevenly, obviously you're loosing braking efficiency and creating hotspots in the pads.

This company do complete strip down and rebuilds:

http://www.brake-caliper-painting.com/porsche.html

What fluid are you using and how frequently are you changing it?

Chris.
You don't stop having fun when you get old - you get old when you stop having fun.
http://88racing.com/

force44
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Re: Pad Fade at Zolder

Postby force44 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:35 pm

Rockingham will be another big test for brakes.
Esp if the current weather holds.

It is a fact the all the boxsters will need to manage thier brakes (ie brake earlier) at some point in the race into turn 1. (125mph+ to 40mph). We know that heavier ABS use makes that point in time come sooner.

Those in newer more powerful cars more so because of greater top speeds and the extra weight. Hence earlier braking points are needed.
There has to be a con against the pro of more power - and it is that that makes this championship so fair and equal amongst the different cars/models.
The weight reductions across the board for this year were to help this.

Perhaps those who've got the gt3 ducts or have directed extra cooling can share thier experiences. We could make those mods mandatory for safety (not expensive at all).

I think we're all settled on castrol srf being the only fluid that copes. Many of us have learned that the hard way.

GarryG.
Boxster Build & Blog @ http://www.ggoodwin.net

karlio
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Re: Pad Fade at Zolder

Postby karlio » Wed Jun 11, 2014 7:56 pm

924
Possible but not a straight swap to put discs on the back of a 924.
Use the rear setup from an 924S will fit but then you will have to use 5 stud wheels.
Not possible to use S front discs as they are wider and will not fit in the caliper.
Not possible to straight swap S callipers.adaptors are available but I am not sure they are suitable for racing.
And again the hubs/discs are 5 stud.
if you do all this may as well just get an S and allow them in class

Karl


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