Hi I am Jim and 23 years old from Kent. I weigh 120kgs (yes I know fat git) and 6' 1" and have been involved in prokart racing for the last 6 years. The last 2 seasons I have done a complete championship and run the team..........my team finished 2nd in class and 4th overall in 2005 which was my teams best championship result.

Now you know a little about me............here is my problem.....

I want to start doing track days in a race car that is road legal and my some of my friends who have owned/raced Porsches in the past strongly recommend your championship.........question is......what do I do next??? Would you advise me to contact Lodgesports about their yellow 924 advertised or should I look for other bargains? Also, is there a chance I could meet up with some of you for a chat and to view your cars and generally introduce me to the car and its maintenance points? I will be going to Autosport by the way

As you can guess I have lots of questions and could do with being inducted  Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance from the Boot Hill Bandit

Hi Jim,

Any more info about the advice you need??

Gazza

sorry just updated it

 Everyone is coming and going..........but has said nothing  

I guess I must have made a bad smell.

Welcome to the forum and hopefully to the series Jim. Sorry if we've been a bit slow in coming back to you.

There's a couple of routes you could take. When I first started thinking about this a couple of years ago, Lodge Sports were running their Porsche racing experience days which gave me a chance to drive one of the cars and to see what it was all about. Its definitely worth having a word with Ernie or Steve Cheetham at Lodge Sports on that. They are very approachable and there's no need to be shy.

Alternatively, you could take the plunge, buy a car and take it to a couple of trackdays. I did a couple at Croft before my first race meeting. I found the trackdays a big help, firstly, in terms of getting into a rhythm driving the car on the circuit and also in terms of getting the car running reliably and into the routine of maintaining and adjusting it.

Looking at your post again, I would point out that the race-prepared cars were run are not road legal. You will need to trailer them around.

I'll have a think about what cars might be available and send you a PM

Cheers

Alec 

Jim,

It is possible to have road-legal cars that can be run in the Championship, and it has been done in the past. They will probably not be totally competitive as they are usually heavy due to having headlights, glass, etc. If they are too stripped out and with a roll cage, bucket seat and 4/6 point harness they may not be too convenient to run as road cars. However it will allow you to test the water. A couple of people have converted road cars into full racers but it is an expensive and time-consuming exercise.  

As you have raced before the best way may be to buy a race car and enter the series as you can always sell it on again later.

I don't know where abouts in Kent you are, but I am in Sussex near Gatwick and am happy if you want to pop over and have a look at the car and have a chat. Paul Pattison lives near Dover and I am sure he would be happy to talk to you if that was more conveninent. 

Phil

Thanks for getting back to me guys I really appreciate it

I have had a chat with my friends today and I am convinced that your series is the way to go.......I haven't yet sat in a 924 which is an important step because I nearly went for a race MGF and sat about 6" above the screen  plus I had found out they are poo. I will get a already prepped car and yes......I now realise I need a trailer too, so may share one with a friend if you know what I mean.

I live in the Medway Towns (sorry I can't be precise for obvious reasons ) in Kent and don't mind travelling to meet people in general. I am in no rush to get the car, it can take a few months if need be because I have a kart and kart trailer to get rid of first but I would like to start looking around now so I am ready to start ASAP.

Just so everyone knows........my plan is to do track days this year and join in with you guys either later on in this season (last couple of rounds for familiarisation ) or next year........

I would like to meet up with some of you for a general chat anyway.......amd somewhere on here I think I read that a 924 will be on the BRSCC stand at Autosport so I will head over there too.

Thanks for everyones help so far and if you have anymore pointers that would be great .

FAO Phil......your mail box is full dude!

Just wanted to have a chat with you about some options and that......

A few questions I have that I hope you can help with.....

1. Trailers..........what do you guys use and if you have no where to put it............what do you do???? I have no where to put a trailer but a car and parts are easily stored.

2. Dog Leg gearbox............are they the better gearbox or do you use a standard box??? Pros and Cons???

3. Can a XXL seat fit in a car? I am slighty concerned that I may not be able to fit in........is there any room for adjustment in pushing the seat back further.........or am I likely not to fit????

Hi Jim

I did this last year! It was actually a lot harder than I thought to make it to the 1st race, lots to learn, lots to buy etc. Very satisfying to make it though.  The guys in the series were very accommodating and really helped out with loads of advice. By the way I followed a similar route to Alec i.e. brought a car (after I had seen it race and checked its results on this forum!) did a track day and then ...1st race at Snetterton

For a trailer a Brian James 14ft clubman or similar will be fine. I use a Woodford Trailers 14 footer. Expect to pay around £1500 for a new one. they can be brought 2nd hand from EBAY but to be honest its not much cheaper.

If you can’t stretch to that EBAY is also full of loads of old trailers for around £500 but beware you will probably have to spend another 100 getting it roadworthy.

There were a couple of drivers selling car and trailer packages a little while ago. I remember one was about £3500. Ernie might be able to help with a contact.

I too have nowhere to store the trailer, but I managed to find a local farmer who lets me store it behind his barn in exchange for some beer tokens. By the way also budget for chains, hitch lock and wheel clamp!

If you get really stuck you could hire one, this is the most expensive and inconvenient way to do it as you have to collect on Friday and return Monday, so time off work required and its approx £50 per day.

Also think about what you are going to use a a tow car. As trailer + Car + a boot full of tools and spares will probably exceed the maximum capacity of most saloons. That said I use a battered old Audi A4 and its fine as long as I dont go too fast!

Do a search on dog leg gearbox on this forum!! Some get on with it, some hate it. It is smaller than the Audi 5 speed and has the gear cluster IN FRONT of the rear axle so theoretically weight distribution is better. The down side is if your not used to this style of gearbox it can be hard to learn. Also they are becoming rare so good ones tend to be expensive as are spares. The Audi box on the other hand is fairly common so cheaper. 

Beware, it’s quite a big job to change from one gearbox to another as the torque tube and rear torsion bar assy need to be changed. So decide what you want before buying a car.

The championship has been won by drivers using either of these boxes.

I have the dog leg box in my car! I really struggled at Snetterton. I just couldn’t get down through the gears, resolving that the syncro's are worn out. However the chap I brought the car off had no problems at all. When I quizzed him on this he replied, and I quote 'All you have to do is get a toe on the gas as you change'. I guess he was referring to heel and toeing. But to be honest as I barrelled towards the corner the last thing my foot could be persuaded to do was twist and press the throttle!! Ah well I am a rookie, I’ve got all this season to practice!

As far as the seat goes don’t worry it will fit fine. You may have to modify the floor mountings but that’s fairly easy. There is loads of room to move the seat backwards.

 Good luck

Steve B

Good stuff............sounds like either 'box is good then. Whatever the car comes with I will learn I am sure.

I drive an LDV Pilot at the moment (need a van for work) and I guess although fairly gutless it will be okay to lug all the gear about......other than that the Land Rover Discovery V8 will pull it with ease  although I don't fancy the fuel consumption

Good news about the seat too........it would be great if I could get fairly comfy in one rather than feeling like a pack of sardines

As for the trailer..........well I guess I will have to see where I can store one either cheap or for a good deal.

Thanks for your help and advise Steve.......

Hi Jim,

I would add that the 5 speed box is virtually bullit proof, where as the 4 speed one is very weak and prone to breakage!

I won the 2006 championship with a 5 speed box!

I searched for a trailer that would fit in my single garage - it was not easy, but I found a second hand one on ebay eventually - I keep the car on the trailer, in the garage now (or did until I sold the car! - just a bare sorry looking trailer now waiting for my next venture!)

Gazza

I have done so Phil.........

Still stuck with the trailer problem.....I know I could try the local farmers (they are a bit unhelpful here) and that but I wonder if there is another solution. Has anyone got a measurement to hand of their trailer length and width???? That would be most helpful.

I have just realised I can't get an A frame/towing dolly as these are illegal to use for towing a car unless the said vehicle is being recovered to a place of safety .........

Hiring costs are fairly expensive it seems and awkward due to Friday collection and Monday return so that won't work......

Doesn't leave me with many options does it?  How frustrating  If anyone does have any ideas I'd like to know.

Hi Jim,

I am selling my trailer if you are interested...

I had the exact same problem you had when I needed one and I searched high and low to find one that would fit in my garage - I eventually found one.

Its just under 7ft wide at the widest part (the wheel arches) and about 17ft long at its longest point.

It tows perfectly, had new tyres and brakes last year and is a hydraulic tiltbed so loading is easy (no ramps needed!)

Ask anybody here as they all know the trailer.

The problem is I cannot take a good picture of it at the moment as its in the garage will lots of stuff on top!

It will be going on ebay in a few weeks - I want to get about £1100 for it as its very special due to its small size.

Let me know if you are interested (or if anybody else is interested too let me know!)

Gazza

I can wait for a piccie Gazza  very helpful indeed. Just got to work out whether that fits or not...........I will have a look ........doh!  it won't fit  my garage is only 15 1/2 foot long

Other good news today...........apparently I can tow a race car on a dolly  despite what the NTTA say........so........I could use a dolly to tow the car..........only worry is ground clearance at the rear........oval tailpipe anyone!

By the way folks.......are these alloy wheels allowed???  I know these guys fairly well and I am curious if they can fit a 924 as they are a bit different to what you guys run.......they are 'motorsport wheels'..........

http://www.advancedautosport.com/winracetctb.jpg">

Winrace TCT

The Braid Winrace TCT wheel is a wheel that bewilders the mind. The TCT range is available in 4 diameters and a truly vast range of widths starting at 4" and increasing in ½" increments. Suitable for a multitude of motorsport the TCT wheel is ideal for circuit racing in GTs, Prototypes and Saloons. A cheaper alternative to a specially made 3 piece wheel the Winrace TCT wheel offers a vast range of size and offset possibilities.

Diameter	Min. width	Max. width	Hole pattern (PCD)	Offset (ET)	Use	Price
15"	4"	11"	5,4,3 or centre lock	various	gravel, snow & tarmac	from £160
16"	4"	11"	5,4,3 or centre lock	various	gravel, snow & tarmac	from £180
17"	4"	11½"	5,4,3 or centre lock	various	gravel, snow & tarmac	from £200
18"	4"	11"	5,4,3 or centre lock	various	gravel, snow & tarmac	from £220

their website is : http://www.advancedautosport.com/ - http://www.advancedautosport.com/

as a side story.........it was me who got Carla Wellings (kart driver) the AAT sponsor.........wish I had done it for myself now

Hi Jim, welcome to the series. I was intrigued by your comment on being able to tow a race car on a dolly- i have toyed with the idea but never found out enough- is there somewhere that specifically says that this is legal- also does it restrict you to 40MPH on the motorway (ah..the 8 hours to Pembrey...)

Cheers,

Kamal

Well.............I asked my friend who is a Policeman (a trustworthy one too!) and he said he sees no problem.........he sees it as an extension to the van and a two wheel trailer.........the AA use them as do other breakdown services.........and said that if a car isn't able to power itself I am effectively recovering it..........

Yet..............the National Trailer Towing Association says it is illegal to do it............but I have seen motorhomes towing a Yaris about.........so..........Police can't be arsed with paperwork is my answer!

Only problem is ground clearance! My karts I used to own had 1" clearance and you guys have 3"!?!?!? You're all nuts!!!!!!!!!  By the time I get to the track the only part of the car left will be a 'bobtailed 924'!

Just out of curiosity.............what is the main problem with a 924 not being road legal???? I know the first is ride height, in Medway thats all we ever have is bloody speed bumps..........what about other factors??

Hi Jim,

To answer your question about ride height when used with a trailer dolly, i had my 924 race car transported using a dolly with a very low ride height and it came all the way from south london to cambridge (where we also have annoying bumps...)without any problems-and it has a huge 4" tail pipe-  it wasn't ideal but it seemed to work even though the front valance had to be taken off. It might be worth putting on some road tyres on normal rims to increase the ride height at the rear for the trip. Also, trailer dolly would be easier to store in the college room!

Kamal

Thats promising Kamal...........only problem I will have is transporting the car to and from events........it seems to be either expensive or borderline illegal........obvious solution is to make the race car road worthy, not sure what is involved though. I know it must have lights, better ground clearance but what else??? any ideas??

Thanks

Jim

Hi Jim,

A few of the problems I can see with a 'road legal' car are:

It will be slow as it will be far too heavy as you will need many bits we remove to pass an mot.

It will be VERY uncomfortable to drive as you will want to fit leda racing suspension - this will feel virtually solid on a standard road!

It will be very low (if its not, you will be even slower!)

All your spares/tools/suits etc will need to go in the car too - may be tight!

If you prang it, you will need to hitchhike home!

Plus, as soon as your insurance company find out you have a roll cage in the car your policy costs rocket!

I am sure there are many other things I have not considered.

Good luck,

Gazza

Thought as much  Thanks for your help guys.

Talking about ride heights ...........what is the recommended ride height you guys use? I think I read that the regs state it about 3"  but how close do you actually set the car to that? I can't find anything in previous posts.

My weight will surely mean the car will sit lower on the drivers side so does that mean the car should be set up differently from side to side?

Another question...........where do you get the polybushes from and to what spec...........do you use 'race' or 'fast road' or even a mixture of the two? I guess it is possible these get tired quickly during racing or am I wrong??? I don't plan on any vast rebuilds but its one of few things I could do with knowing about should the need arise.

I am starting to look at cars from next weekend onwards hopefully, so at least things are progressing........

Thanks again

Jim

Thanks Phil. Hope no one takes offence, but thats strange that ..........surely if polybushes were allowed it would mean suspension parts could be reused. Would my assupmtion that the OE Porsche rubber bushes are moulded into the parts and therefore non replaceable, which means new suspension components would need to be bought instead when worn?? Maybe I am wrong  

Are the 2007 regs available yet Phil?...if so, can I pick up a copy at the weekend?

Thanks again

Jim

Hi Jim,

All the bushes are changable with standard ones (I did the mall on my car this time last year)

It costs more than the poly ones though! - I tried to get regs to use poly bushes last year but to be fair, it means everybody would need to change there bushes overnight at great expense so its not an easy one to call.

Regards

Gazza

Back on trailers! We had some whacky ideas at work on how to store it when not in use. they may be feasible, otherwise they are good for a giggle!

Make some big ramps and store ON TOP of the garage

Fit a winch to the side of the house and winch the trailer onto its side so out of the way.

Dig a pit in the drive and then park the trailer in it. if you get the depth right you could park on it as well!

Make a small dolly tip the trailer on its side onto the dolly and wheel down the side of the house into the garden

Design a trailer that will hinge along its longitudinal centre line. Then fold until narrow enough to store in your garage.

Make a kit trailer?!

Make a trailer with retractable wheels

Move house!

Buy a bus and tour the country in a Cliff Richard summer holiday style.

Thanks Steve  Very good..........making a dolly to move a trailer about  a bit like making a jig for making a jig

Although you have hit on one idea that I will be putting into practice.................whatever trailer comes with the car I will cut off the A frame as tight to the bed as possible and make it removable (well the guy fabricating the brackets will)........illegal or not thats what I will do and I am certain it will be strong enough to carry a car (as a carpenter I know about 'loadings' and how to make structures strong).

All that remains then is for me not to visit the scenery every five minutes, not to run into other people and generally cause mass chaos

Jim have you seen this?

http://www.motorsportads.co.uk/race-cars/saloon-cars/64 36.html - http://www.motorsportads.co.uk/race-cars/saloon-cars/6436.ht ml

or this

http://www.motorsportads.co.uk/race-cars/gt-sports-cars/6176 .html - http://www.motorsportads.co.uk/race-cars/gt-sports-cars/6176 .html

Or this

http://www.fastroadandtrack.co.uk/frat/showad.php?adid=4473 - http://www.fastroadandtrack.co.uk/frat/showad.php?adid=4473

Steve

Hi Steve

No, No and errrrrrr No!  Thanks for the pointers!  Had a look at Phils car today and had a chat.........I'm very happy and it all looks like it suits me to a T.

Just got to empty my garage and get a car now.

Just so others know Alex's car has been sold *as has Mickeys car* .......Oh well.......I will no doubt find one soon and be joining you all in due course.

Jim

Got to say folks...........its not looking too good.........there doesn't seem to be any cars left for sale .

Don't know for sure but it would seem that cars have either been smashed up or broken for spares whilst only a few new built cars have been put together.

I can forsee a build marathon coming on   for myself. Or take the easy option and get Ernie to do it  If I make any progress I will let you all know.

Jim